Superfighter
Nah van egy új kezdeményezés. Lényegében egy K1 rendszerű torna ismeretlen brit nehézsúlyúak között. Itt a cikk:
Eight heavyweights, seven fights, three three-minute rounds, last man standing pockets £25,000... welcome to Prizefighter.
This Friday on Sky Sports, Barry Hearn puts on a British boxing first in Bethnal Green when his new knockout series arrives at the York Hall.
The fighters are in place, complete with replacements, the draw was made on Soccer AM on Saturday and the total prize pot of £67,000 is on the table.
But before the fists start to fly, skysports.com's Tim Hobbs caught up with Hearn to find out how it came about, how it's been received and what we can expect.
And, it seems, just what a gamble he is taking...
Prizefighter is something we've not seen been before. How did the concept come about?
Barry Hearn: This has never been a new thing to be fair, the idea of a knockout competition among different weight divisions. Jack Solomon was doing it in London years ago, but not over one night. Obviously I am always looking for different ways of making promotions a bit more exciting and getting bigger ratings for Sky, so everybody wins.
Does that mean you have become disilluisoned with the conventional boxing shows?
Barry Hearn: I wouldn't say I was disillusioned with boxing, it's well worth its salt, we know it's a really tough way to earn a living and the kids all deserve our respect. But I'm trying to find a new angle because clearly UFC has come up with a successful format with its fights in America and I think that is going to spread to the UK. It brings a younger audience in and watching things like The Contender on TV, I was seeing good scraps between kids I'd never even heard of, all giving 100 per cent. Coupled with that is my own love of professional boxing - I've promoted over 500 shows over the last 20 years - so I put the two together and thought the one thing we need is a younger audience.
What else does Prizefighter offer that you feel has been lacking in the sport?
Barry Hearn: We also need more exciting fights and I thought the best way to do that is to cut down the number of rounds and make it into a competition over one night where the fighters are all financially motivated to win. These boys won't try and nick it, because that will be too dangerous, so hopefully we'll get more exciting fights in a short period of time. They know they will have to come back again and again and the crowd will be following the progress of the four winners. They'll be seeing a whole competition on one night and that's never been done before. That's the sort of thing that may just bring a new audience into boxing - and also give us a bit more crash, bang, wallop, thank you very much!
How hard was it to get up and running? The British Boxing Board of Control are not exactly famed for making allowances, but it seems they have played their part in getting this off the ground...
Barry Hearn: I was actually pleasantly surprised. The British Board of Boxing Control were very supportive. They do get a lot of stick - and some of it justified - and I was almost waiting for the tussles. Also, there are so many different governing bodies in the sport these days, when something new comes along they always get stuck in too. That's not how it was in my day, but sometimes the sport is going backwards and is being run by television and promoters. In fairness, the Board said 'we have a responsibility to try new, innovative promotions and we have a responsibility to the sport, so we mustn't close our eyes to new anything' - let's hope they're rewarded. Prizefighter will be more showbiz, a bit more razzamatazz and it is going to be instant excitement. And that is something boxing needs.
And something Barry Hearn needs? Reading some of your comments elsewhere, it seems you might be feeling a little 'stale' in the sport. Is that fair comment?
Barry Hearn: I think it probably is. For a period of 10 years I was the biggest promoter in Europe. Now obviously I no longer am because Matchroom Sport does a whole range of shows from poker to ten-pin bowling to the darts, but boxing has always remained a special sport for me. I've had some wonderful days with Nigel Benn, with Chris Eubank, with Lennox Lewis, with Naseem Hamed and perhaps I am at that crossroads where I do want to generate more excitement, not just for fight fans, but for myself. I can now say to these lads, 'get in there, you've got three rounds and you could get yourself £25,000, which is something you've never seen before'. The Prizefighter series is not going to be about who's going to be the next heavyweight champion of the world; it's about fighters giving it all they've got for three three-minute rounds, because of what they are.
What was the reaction like when you started the search for the fighters?
Barry Hearn: I wondered, I really wondered, who would join up. But there are eight fighters and two reserves and I could have got 30. What also staggered me is that four of the eight are undefeated; these are young prospects as well-established fighters who all feel that, given the format, they've got a chance of causing an upset. We live in this soap opera, reality world of television where fans want to establish a bond with the characters and Prizefighter will have that. You'll get to find out more about these kids through Sky's production, you'll see these lads on centre stage for the first time and we'll find out about them - will they freeze on the night? I know a couple of these lads and they aren't going to take a backwards step, believe me!
So the boxers have embraced it, but what has the response from the public been like?
Barry Hearn: It's been unbelievable. People I have known for years that have jibbed into more shows than they have paid for have even bought tickets. It's been astonishing. It's what I expected as well, a younger audience and if you like, a more affluent audience. There's even a few celebrities coming that are buying tickets, which I really can't believe. All of these are good signs but I am going to live and die by the ratings. If Sky phone me on the Monday and say it rated x-amount and if it hasn't done any better, then it hasn't worked. But I think it will.
You say it's a gamble. If it goes wrong, you'll hold your hands up and admit if failed, I tried, but it wasn't meant to be?
Barry Hearn: That's exactly right. I'm treating this in the same way I'm expecting the fighters to treat it - I'm going to go for it. They're going for it over three rounds, I'm going for it over one night of promotion. And as I say, I am going to live and die by the ratings. If this doesn't rate well, then you won't hear from me again... only teasing!
So why take the gamble, Barry?
Barry Hearn: I started promoting because whenever I bought a ticket to a show, I didn't think I was getting value for money. The home fighters were protected etc... etc... I think that's probably true of Frank Warren as well; we were the young promoters and we looked around and thought 'we can do this better' - and we both did. Then other promoters have come in and done the same, but of course over the years we have to accept that things change. The public's demands change, television's demands change and we have to move with the times, and frankly fighting hasn't.
In what way exactly? Surely British boxing has never had it so good?
Barry Hearn: There's always going to be the Ricky Hatton's, the Joe Calzaghe's, but there's hundreds and hundreds of kids out there who want their name on centre stage. With this they feel they can come to the party when it comes to entertainment value and I think they should be given the chance. They're not going to be able to retire instantly on this, so the man on the street can understand it - they're fighting for 25 large! When you look at it say Ricky Hatton, you say did he get £10million or £15million? How much does Oscar de la Hoya get? That's money is beyond comprehension, but we're going back to the cobbles attitude. It's got that feeling of 'I'm going out for a quick tear-up'.
Premier League Darts has been a huge success and I guess that would be the benchmark. But Prizefighter doesn't have the established figures, week in, week out...
Barry Hearn: You haven't, but the real downside of boxing has always been to me, how much you rely on the top of the bill. So if Ricky Hatton gets injured, the fight's off, if Oscar de la Hoya gets injured, there's no fight. The Prizefighter series is different, it's the brand. And if someone drops out, there's a replacement to come in, it doesn't affect the show. That is the key of its marketability; people will like the Prizefighter series and that's what I want. It's very exciting the way Premier League darts has developed as a brand over the last three years and who knows, we could be talking three, four, five, six, seven eight Prizefighter shows a year and all of a sudden you're taking it round the country and building a similar type of brand.
In the meantime, what can people tuning into Sky Sports for the first one expect? What won't they have seen before?
Barry Hearn: What they'll know is that from 9.30pm on Friday night they are going to see non-stop action. They won't have time to pause for breath, they won't have time to put the kettle on, because all they're going to see is leather being thrown. These kids have got ambition, they want the money and they are prepared to go out and get it. It's going to be a unique evening.
Eight heavyweights, seven fights, three three-minute rounds, last man standing pockets £25,000... welcome to Prizefighter.
This Friday on Sky Sports, Barry Hearn puts on a British boxing first in Bethnal Green when his new knockout series arrives at the York Hall.
The fighters are in place, complete with replacements, the draw was made on Soccer AM on Saturday and the total prize pot of £67,000 is on the table.
But before the fists start to fly, skysports.com's Tim Hobbs caught up with Hearn to find out how it came about, how it's been received and what we can expect.
And, it seems, just what a gamble he is taking...
Prizefighter is something we've not seen been before. How did the concept come about?
Barry Hearn: This has never been a new thing to be fair, the idea of a knockout competition among different weight divisions. Jack Solomon was doing it in London years ago, but not over one night. Obviously I am always looking for different ways of making promotions a bit more exciting and getting bigger ratings for Sky, so everybody wins.
Does that mean you have become disilluisoned with the conventional boxing shows?
Barry Hearn: I wouldn't say I was disillusioned with boxing, it's well worth its salt, we know it's a really tough way to earn a living and the kids all deserve our respect. But I'm trying to find a new angle because clearly UFC has come up with a successful format with its fights in America and I think that is going to spread to the UK. It brings a younger audience in and watching things like The Contender on TV, I was seeing good scraps between kids I'd never even heard of, all giving 100 per cent. Coupled with that is my own love of professional boxing - I've promoted over 500 shows over the last 20 years - so I put the two together and thought the one thing we need is a younger audience.
What else does Prizefighter offer that you feel has been lacking in the sport?
Barry Hearn: We also need more exciting fights and I thought the best way to do that is to cut down the number of rounds and make it into a competition over one night where the fighters are all financially motivated to win. These boys won't try and nick it, because that will be too dangerous, so hopefully we'll get more exciting fights in a short period of time. They know they will have to come back again and again and the crowd will be following the progress of the four winners. They'll be seeing a whole competition on one night and that's never been done before. That's the sort of thing that may just bring a new audience into boxing - and also give us a bit more crash, bang, wallop, thank you very much!
How hard was it to get up and running? The British Boxing Board of Control are not exactly famed for making allowances, but it seems they have played their part in getting this off the ground...
Barry Hearn: I was actually pleasantly surprised. The British Board of Boxing Control were very supportive. They do get a lot of stick - and some of it justified - and I was almost waiting for the tussles. Also, there are so many different governing bodies in the sport these days, when something new comes along they always get stuck in too. That's not how it was in my day, but sometimes the sport is going backwards and is being run by television and promoters. In fairness, the Board said 'we have a responsibility to try new, innovative promotions and we have a responsibility to the sport, so we mustn't close our eyes to new anything' - let's hope they're rewarded. Prizefighter will be more showbiz, a bit more razzamatazz and it is going to be instant excitement. And that is something boxing needs.
And something Barry Hearn needs? Reading some of your comments elsewhere, it seems you might be feeling a little 'stale' in the sport. Is that fair comment?
Barry Hearn: I think it probably is. For a period of 10 years I was the biggest promoter in Europe. Now obviously I no longer am because Matchroom Sport does a whole range of shows from poker to ten-pin bowling to the darts, but boxing has always remained a special sport for me. I've had some wonderful days with Nigel Benn, with Chris Eubank, with Lennox Lewis, with Naseem Hamed and perhaps I am at that crossroads where I do want to generate more excitement, not just for fight fans, but for myself. I can now say to these lads, 'get in there, you've got three rounds and you could get yourself £25,000, which is something you've never seen before'. The Prizefighter series is not going to be about who's going to be the next heavyweight champion of the world; it's about fighters giving it all they've got for three three-minute rounds, because of what they are.
What was the reaction like when you started the search for the fighters?
Barry Hearn: I wondered, I really wondered, who would join up. But there are eight fighters and two reserves and I could have got 30. What also staggered me is that four of the eight are undefeated; these are young prospects as well-established fighters who all feel that, given the format, they've got a chance of causing an upset. We live in this soap opera, reality world of television where fans want to establish a bond with the characters and Prizefighter will have that. You'll get to find out more about these kids through Sky's production, you'll see these lads on centre stage for the first time and we'll find out about them - will they freeze on the night? I know a couple of these lads and they aren't going to take a backwards step, believe me!
So the boxers have embraced it, but what has the response from the public been like?
Barry Hearn: It's been unbelievable. People I have known for years that have jibbed into more shows than they have paid for have even bought tickets. It's been astonishing. It's what I expected as well, a younger audience and if you like, a more affluent audience. There's even a few celebrities coming that are buying tickets, which I really can't believe. All of these are good signs but I am going to live and die by the ratings. If Sky phone me on the Monday and say it rated x-amount and if it hasn't done any better, then it hasn't worked. But I think it will.
You say it's a gamble. If it goes wrong, you'll hold your hands up and admit if failed, I tried, but it wasn't meant to be?
Barry Hearn: That's exactly right. I'm treating this in the same way I'm expecting the fighters to treat it - I'm going to go for it. They're going for it over three rounds, I'm going for it over one night of promotion. And as I say, I am going to live and die by the ratings. If this doesn't rate well, then you won't hear from me again... only teasing!
So why take the gamble, Barry?
Barry Hearn: I started promoting because whenever I bought a ticket to a show, I didn't think I was getting value for money. The home fighters were protected etc... etc... I think that's probably true of Frank Warren as well; we were the young promoters and we looked around and thought 'we can do this better' - and we both did. Then other promoters have come in and done the same, but of course over the years we have to accept that things change. The public's demands change, television's demands change and we have to move with the times, and frankly fighting hasn't.
In what way exactly? Surely British boxing has never had it so good?
Barry Hearn: There's always going to be the Ricky Hatton's, the Joe Calzaghe's, but there's hundreds and hundreds of kids out there who want their name on centre stage. With this they feel they can come to the party when it comes to entertainment value and I think they should be given the chance. They're not going to be able to retire instantly on this, so the man on the street can understand it - they're fighting for 25 large! When you look at it say Ricky Hatton, you say did he get £10million or £15million? How much does Oscar de la Hoya get? That's money is beyond comprehension, but we're going back to the cobbles attitude. It's got that feeling of 'I'm going out for a quick tear-up'.
Premier League Darts has been a huge success and I guess that would be the benchmark. But Prizefighter doesn't have the established figures, week in, week out...
Barry Hearn: You haven't, but the real downside of boxing has always been to me, how much you rely on the top of the bill. So if Ricky Hatton gets injured, the fight's off, if Oscar de la Hoya gets injured, there's no fight. The Prizefighter series is different, it's the brand. And if someone drops out, there's a replacement to come in, it doesn't affect the show. That is the key of its marketability; people will like the Prizefighter series and that's what I want. It's very exciting the way Premier League darts has developed as a brand over the last three years and who knows, we could be talking three, four, five, six, seven eight Prizefighter shows a year and all of a sudden you're taking it round the country and building a similar type of brand.
In the meantime, what can people tuning into Sky Sports for the first one expect? What won't they have seen before?
Barry Hearn: What they'll know is that from 9.30pm on Friday night they are going to see non-stop action. They won't have time to pause for breath, they won't have time to put the kettle on, because all they're going to see is leather being thrown. These kids have got ambition, they want the money and they are prepared to go out and get it. It's going to be a unique evening.
You will never walk alone!
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Miskolci
- P4P
- HozzászólásokCOLON 1358
- CsatlakozottCOLON 2005-08-26 21:03:22
- Tartózkodási helyCOLON Miskolc-DIÓSGYŐR
Re: Superfighter
Briggs ügye kiesik Klitschko miatt.<br>Greenberg 09. 09-én boxol az usa-ban ez nem hiszem h az mert itt ausztrália volt említve helyszínnek<br>Samupeti meg szeptemberben boxol Toneyal.<br>A többiekről meg fogalmam sincs.
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Justin
- PKSZ Assistant Team
- HozzászólásokCOLON 1565
- CsatlakozottCOLON 2005-07-10 18:59:34
- Tartózkodási helyCOLON Nagyszalonta
Re: Superfighter
Na ezzel mi lesz? :)
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mojo68
- Bajnok
- HozzászólásokCOLON 273
- CsatlakozottCOLON 2005-02-19 12:59:32
- Tartózkodási helyCOLON Nagyharsány (Baranya)
Re: Superfighter
[quote author=Pisti link=board=profiboksz;num=1147277452;start=15#17 date=05/17/06 ť 20:55:23]Egy Chagaev - SamPeti döntöt nagyon megnéznék....[/quote]<br><br>Azt én is, csak vigyázni kellene negyogy kiüssék a tévémből a képcsövet. ;) Ennyi menet alatt nem kéne spórólni a municióval.
Örökké akarok élni. Eddig sikerült
MoJó
MoJó
Re: Superfighter
Egy Chagaev - SamPeti döntöt nagyon megnéznék....
Re: Superfighter
Én egy pár nappal ezelött azt a hirt kaptam, hogy a SportKlubbon felvételröl leadjuk... 
<br>
<br>-
Miskolci
- P4P
- HozzászólásokCOLON 1358
- CsatlakozottCOLON 2005-08-26 21:03:22
- Tartózkodási helyCOLON Miskolc-DIÓSGYŐR
Re: Superfighter
Na akkor valaki megnevelné ezt a Greenberg gyereket, mert irtó pofátlan a ringben. 
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Justin
- PKSZ Assistant Team
- HozzászólásokCOLON 1565
- CsatlakozottCOLON 2005-07-10 18:59:34
- Tartózkodási helyCOLON Nagyszalonta
Re: Superfighter
A hivatalos oldalon Toney , Mesi meg Holly apó is benne lenne a buliban!
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Santos
- Tiszteletbeli PKSZ tag
- HozzászólásokCOLON 2668
- CsatlakozottCOLON 1970-01-01 02:00:00
- Tartózkodási helyCOLON Budapest
Re: Superfighter
Időközben mennek a találgatások itt is, ott is, és egy ilyen változatot is lehet találni már a neten, bár még sehonnan nincs visszaigazolva:<br><br>Várható névsor:<br><br>Chris Byrd<br>Ruslan Chagaev<br>ONeil Bell<br>Roman Greenberg<br>Sinan Şamil Sam<br>Michael Moorer<br>Shannon Briggs<br>Samuel Peter<br><br>
<br><br>Ki tudja mi lesz ebből, bár a lista elég jónak ígérkezik, még ha a fele lesz csak igaz, akkor is.
<br><br>Ki tudja mi lesz ebből, bár a lista elég jónak ígérkezik, még ha a fele lesz csak igaz, akkor is. K [color=red:12ezy3zy]U[/color:12ezy3zy] P [color=red:12ezy3zy]A[/color:12ezy3zy] G [color=red:12ezy3zy]Y [/color:12ezy3zy]Ő [color=red:12ezy3zy]Z[/color:12ezy3zy] T [color=red:12ezy3zy]E[/color:12ezy3zy] S[color=red:12ezy3zy] ![/color:12ezy3zy]![color=red:12ezy3zy]![/color:12ezy3zy] 
Re: Superfighter
[quote author=Camo link=board=profiboksz;num=1147277452;start=0#8 date=05/10/06 ť 20:04:14]<br><br>Ha jól emlékszem, erről már volt szó itt a fórumon, csak nem tudom, hogy hol. <br><br>Van ötleted, hogy hol nézzek utána? Érdekelne a dolog.[/quote]<br><br><br>Nem tudom, hogy volt-e itt róla szó, de utána kerestem neked régebbi újságokba.<br><br>1993 december 3. Mississippi állambeli Bay St. Louis<br><br>Az eredeti elképzelés szerint minden induló az első ringbe lépése után 25.000 dollárt kapott volna, amolyan "induló pénzt". Bonuszként pedig 20.000 dollár járt minden első menetes győzelemért. Végül a 16 indulóból a végső győztes 1.005.000 dollárt tehetett volna zsebre, ha...az eredeti támogató nem vonta volna ki a pénzt a tornából. Végül drasztikus díj csökkentés történt, így a végső győztes mindössze 170.000 dolláros garantált összegre számíthatott (+ a bonusz, amit 20-ról 10.000-re csökkentettek) a 4, 3 menetes egyéjszakás mérkőzésért. (Nem rossz, de azért messze van az eredeti 1 millió dollártól)<br><br>Az indulók: <br>A volt világbajnok James"Bonechruser"Smith, a középszerű Lester Jackson, a volt világbajnok Tony Tubbs, a középszerű Willie Jackson, a középszerű Marshall Tillman, a középszerű Jason Williams, a jobb nevű, de már leszálló Jose Ribalta, a jó középszerű Derek Williams Angliából, a középszerű kanadai Shane Sutcliffe, a középszerű Rocky Ray Phillips, a román Daniel Dancuta, a középszerű Derrick Roddy, a volt olimpiai ezüstérmes de már leszálló Tyrell Biggs, az ukrán középszerű Yevgeni Sudakov, a középszerű ausztrál Craig Petersen és a jónevű Bert Cooper. (A bokszolók minősítése az kb. az akkori állapotukat tükrözi, egyikük sem tartozott akkoriban a világ 10 legjobb nehézsúlyúja közé)<br>Az eredeti tervek szerint szerettek volna még jobbnevű bunyósokat is (a volt WBO bajnok Damiani, a 84-es olimpiai aranyérmes, Tysont amatőrként legyőző Henry Tillmant és a volt világbajnok Michael Dokest és Greg Page-t), de végül ők nem indultak.<br><br>az első körben a selejtezők: <br>Sutcliffe DQ3 Ray Phillips / Dancuta TKO1 Roddy / Biggs W3 Sudakov / Petersen W3 Cooper / Tubbs KO1 W. Jackson / Smith W3 L. Jackson / Ribalta W3 D.Williams / Tillman W3 J. Williams<br><br>negyed döntők: <br>Smith W3 Tillman / Tubbs W3 Ribalta / Biggs TKO2 Sutcliffe / Petersent az orvos nem engedte tovább, Dancuta jutott tovább<br><br>Elődöntők: <br>Tubbs W3 Biggs / Dancuta W3 Smith<br><br>Döntő: Tony Tubbs W3 Daniel Dancuta<br><br>Végül Tubbs vehette fel a 170.000 dollárt, míg Dancuta a 2. helyével 50.000 dollárt keresett.<br><br>A kábel TV nézők pedig mindezért 24.95 dollárt fizettek, hogy láthassák. A helyszínen pedig 5.283-an tekintették meg az összecsapásokat.<br><br>A nézők között ülő Larry Holmes pedig ennyit fűzött hozzá: "Jobb ha engem hívnak a második ilyen showra..." 
Re: Superfighter
[quote author=Hollywood link=board=profiboksz;num=1147277452;start=0#7 date=05/10/06 ť 19:59:53]Azt Mo Harris nyerte<br>Ez mindent el is mond róla.[/quote]<br><br>Ezzel messzemenőkig egyetértek. <br>Utána meg kénytelen volt végignézni az ember, hogy Oquendóval bohóckodnak. :-/<br>(Azért az mekkora bitang szerencse, hogy azóta mindketten eltűntek a süllyesztőben. ...)<br>
Öregember nem gyorsvonat.
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philosopher
- Újonc
- HozzászólásokCOLON 50
- CsatlakozottCOLON 2006-04-15 14:06:39
- Tartózkodási helyCOLON Szeged
Re: Superfighter
Más sportágban az ilyen dolgokat hívják versenynek, ahol több versenyző összemérheti az erejét. Itt legalább kiderülhetne, ki a legjobb (azon a napon).<br><br>Bár igaz, hogy kicsit más stílusú meccs lenne a három menet miatt, de azért jó volna ha a legjobbak benne lennének egy ilyen versenyben (amit azért kétlek :-/). Így nem kéne fél vagy 1 évet várni, míg egy világbajnok ringbe lép, 3 meccs a legjobbtól egy nap alatt :).<br><br>Itt is pontozóbírók döntenek majd? Akkor nem lennék a helyükben.
Gondolkodom, tehát vagyok (Descartes).
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BlaZe
- Bajnok
- HozzászólásokCOLON 262
- CsatlakozottCOLON 2002-12-03 12:15:59
- Tartózkodási helyCOLON Budapest
- CONTACTCOLON
Re: Superfighter
[quote author=leibigab link=board=profiboksz;num=1147277452;start=0#5 date=05/10/06 ť 19:13:41]<br><br>Az ilyen rövid menetszámmal csak annyi a gond, hogy egy "kicsit előnyt élveznek" a technikásabb bokszolók...nem igazán jön ki az esetleges állóképességi különbség...a taktikai lehetőségek is elvesznek...stb.<br>[/quote]<br><br>Nekem a Contenderrel is volt ilyen bajom. Sokat szokták emlegetni a bunyósok, amikor átváltanak amatőrről profira, hogy azért ez egy másik sport. És a legkomolyabb különbség szerintem pont a menetszám. Teljesen más lefolyása van egy 3 menetes meccsnek, meg egy 12 menetesnek. Van idő taktikázni, felpörögni, stb. Gondoljunk csak bele... Valaki véletlenül belelép valamibe akár egy kicsit is, akkor már max egy döntetlenre jó. <br><br>Nemtecc... :-/
Re: Superfighter
[quote author=leibigab link=board=profiboksz;num=1147277452;start=0#5 date=05/10/06 ť 19:13:41]A 90-es évek elején volt egy ehez hasonló úgynevezett "nép által választott egyéjszakás nehézsúlyú torna"...úgy 10-12 erős középszerű-gyenge jókból összeállított nehézsúlyú torna. 3x3 perces menetekkel, kieséses alapon lejátszva egy este.[/quote]<br><br>Ha jól emlékszem, erről már volt szó itt a fórumon, csak nem tudom, hogy hol. <br><br>Van ötleted, hogy hol nézzek utána? Érdekelne a dolog.
Camo